savage
Hot shot 
Member #: 644 Posts 48
Registered: 13-4-2004 Location: Birmingham Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 4-4-2007 at 10:02 |
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Sonic 2007 build quality issues
Has anyone with the new 2007 sonic had any stitching problems? I bought one recently, used it 3 times and then noticed a buldge in the
leading edge. After closer inspection it seems that when they were stitching it the needle didn’t got through the material
properly. Anyone else had any problems?
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Si_B
Pro 
Member #: 2537 Posts 80
Registered: 11-10-2006 Member Is Offline Mood: Single and getting happier !!
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| posted on 4-4-2007 at 11:40 |
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Ben,
I'm amazed that the leading edge stayed intact. If this was an 06, I guess you would be looking at a hefty repair bill and a new
leading edge bladder ??.
Top backloop kite loops at the weekend by the way. Very impressive.
Cheers,
Simon
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savage
Hot shot
Member #: 644 Posts 48
Registered: 13-4-2004 Location: Birmingham Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 4-4-2007 at 12:07 |
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Cheers si! I had the same thing happen to my 06 sonic, but on that one I didn’t notice the buldge in time which resulted in it
ripping
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shem
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| posted on 4-4-2007 at 17:41 |
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Thats got to be a serious one off, the new 07 leading adge blader has had great reviews. Get it back to Blow motion. The initial sonic,
and other brand leading edge issues, were cheap and simple to repair.
What pressure you pumping it up to ben?
Kite & SUP wales
Caravan decking wales
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shem
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| posted on 4-4-2007 at 20:26 |
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As posted by Sean Curren, on Flexifoil forums. Just so every one can see The importers answer.
Hi, for thoise that don't know I run Airjam and I am the UK importer for GK.
There is no problem with lack of response here... I am 'someone in charge' and I have seen the kite and spoke to Ben personaly.
There is also NO problems to report with the 2007 GK Sonic or Trix LE stitching. Our customer feedback on 07 Globes has been
exceptionaly good with no warranty claims other than this one.
Hi Ben,
Re: Tubes... From the very first run of 07 kites we had 3 reports of one pump tubes blowing off after heavy impact or kites getting
mashed in waves... this was around 0.3% and we responded very quickly (within 2 weeks of the first report) by supplying a UK sourced
replacement tube set / system that is very easy to retro fit and works extremely well with no worries. GK customers were very happy
that we addressed this so quickly with such a simple fix. All subsequent kites have the potential issue rectified at the factory of
course.
With regards to your stitching problem... we have had absoluety ZERO issues with the 2007 GK Sonic (or Trix ) build quality and that
includes ZERO reports of any leading edge failures... and this is for a number of kites well into 3 figures and in plenty use since
before xmas... ie: over 4 months of use over one of the mildest and windiest winters since kitesurfing began.
Now then Ben... you have had your kites for almost 3 months now. You say that you have only used it 3 times. Under these curcumstances
we would give very serious consideration to treating it as a full warranty with a replacement kite... although I can tell you that any
manufacturer that we have ever dealt with would look at it and at most would offer a free and very simple repair.
If it was any more of a regular fault seen on more than a few kites that may indicate a shortcoming in manufacturing quality, design or
a manufacturing de-fect then there would be more of a case for a replacement kite under the manufacturer's warranty etc... but in this
case there are no other reports of any LE stitchiing failures as I have said.
You forgot to mention that you actualy did send the kite back to us... despite the fact that there was more sand in the box than kite,
fortunately I took some photos of it because it was obviously in quite a rough condition.
Anyone can see the kite has clearly had a large amount of use ... and heavy use at that. It has certainly not only been flown 3 times
or anything close to that. From the photos below you can see that the LE has seen plenty of use from the bleached out crack / stress
marks all over the Dacron as well as the overall condition and relatively soft / warn feel of the fabric itself.
See image 1
Even more indicative of heavy use is the condition of the Teijin ripstop along the trailing edge of the kite... this is one of the
things to look for when buying a second hand kite as it indicates its usage etc. As you can see from the photo, your kite is clearly
showing signs of heavy use along the trailing edge... the fabric was soft, and well worn with the tell tale cracked look to it.
see image 2
Assessing the condition of this kite it is quite obvious that it has had far more use and abuse than the "used 3 times" that you told
us. In fact its fair to say it looks like it has had a pretty hard life so far... There is no way any kite supplier/manufacturer would
replace this for a new kite under warranty.
Also... by coincidence, all of this fits with something else that happened a few months back... Before you purchased your 07 kites we
actualy recieved 2 seperate phone calls from other retailers who you have had dealings with and who you actualy ride with regularly...
both calls were to warn us about dealing with you because you are apparently very abusive and hard on your kit and in general you (I
quote) "take the pi$$". Both of these retailers said that they would no longer deal with you at all and advised us to do the same.
This is quite unpresidented... that 2 seperate retailers should stop dealing with a particular customer and both should feel compelled
to contact another competeing dealer (knowing you have dealings with them too) to warn them about such a thing. It seemed pretty crazy
to us at the time... but now it kind of makes sense.
Despite all this, combined with the obvious use and abuse that the kite has had upon inspection... we still offered to repair it for
free. It is a very small and very simple, practicaly invisible repair to make. You declined the offer and asked us to send the kite
back as it was already repaired... we returned it straight away at our expense, we also offered to meet your repair cost and even threw
a free DVD and wallet in the box.
As much as we bend over backwards and positively bust our balls day in, day out to continue to provide the very best customer service
that we have a hard earned reputation for ... there is a limit to just how far you can stretch the old adage that 'the customer is
always right'... even in this day and age of 'tinterweb forum leverage.
In this case, I'm sorry, but I really don't think you are right Ben. I can understand that you might try it on in the hope you could
land a brand new kite in exchange for a well used one but there is no way that a replacement kite is remotely warranted in this case
and in reality I would expect that anyone would be happy to accept that.
If you would like to discuss this matter further and sensibly then you know where I can be contacted.
Cheers,
Sean
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Last edited by Sean C : Today at 20:15. Reason: spelink and bad grandma
[Edited on 4-4-2007 by shem]
Kite & SUP wales
Caravan decking wales
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shem
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| posted on 4-4-2007 at 20:28 |
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First image
shem has attached this image:
Kite & SUP wales
Caravan decking wales
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shem
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| posted on 4-4-2007 at 20:28 |
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second image
shem has attached this image:
Kite & SUP wales
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leonardo
A Force-of-Nature *** 
Member #: 634 Posts 613
Registered: 8-4-2004 Member Is Offline Mood: Chillin' ya bloodclot mahn
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| posted on 5-4-2007 at 09:13 |
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Loving da Trix and haven't had any issues whatsoever..totally stoked that i bought the 9m and find that i just don't need anything
else. learning new tricks every sesh!
LEN10 LOOPING..
www.sskiteboarding.com
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savage
Hot shot
Member #: 644 Posts 48
Registered: 13-4-2004 Location: Birmingham Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 5-4-2007 at 09:22 |
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The pictures that I took showing the faulty stitching show the kite in a good condition because it had only been used 3 times. But as I
was on my first day of a 2 week holiday when I noticed the buldge, I needed to get it fixed. I then used the kite for 12 days of the
holiday. The kite in the pictures that sean has taken are of an unwashed kite. The white marks are just the salt from the sea water.
You can see from the pictures I took showing the faulty stitching that it is in good condition. I live in Birmingham and have to travel
3 hours each way to go kiting, so getting a good use out of my kite would take me a while as I can only go on weekends, wind
permitting. I was in the other shop that you talk about on Monday, I bought a new helmet and handle pass leash from them, they
didn’t mention anything about not wanting to deal with me and they sorted me out with the problem that you talk about. I did
start this thread to see if anyone else has had any problems. After all that’s what forums are for. And you can see clearly from
my pictures that the thread was not stitched all the way through the material, thus showing that it is a fault with the stitching.
Sean, the white marks and sand on the kite will come off with a hosing down. When I spend £800 on a new kite I expect it to not fall
apart after a few uses. £800 is a lot of money to me so I need the kite to last a reasonable amount of time. It is clear to see that
the kite is in good condition in my photos and they show clearly it is a faulty stitching issue. Sean, thanks for the wallet and free
brunotti dvd. But that doesn’t cover the cost of my repair and posting the kite to you. I do think the sonic is a great kite that
is why I have bought another one. But I did hope that the problems from last year would have been rectified. Sean, I understand why you
have been quite defensive as you are the importer of the kite. All I have done is explain what has happened with my kite. I just hope
there are no more problems.
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Jonny
A Force-of-Nature ** 
Member #: 394 Posts 308
Registered: 6-10-2003 Location: North West Member Is Offline Mood: waitin for the next blow!
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| posted on 5-4-2007 at 12:55 |
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quote:
leonardo
Loving da Trix and haven't had any issues whatsoever..totally stoked that i bought the 9m and find that i just don't need anything
else. learning new tricks every sesh!
Gotta agree with Leo here. Really glad I bought my 9m Trix. My ridings come on loads since I bought it. I was out last Saturday and
there were a few guys overpowered on their 7m and blown off the water. I was fully lit on my 9 so was able to boost some massive scary
jumps.
The kite also outperforms my old 12m Co2. It covers the low wind range my CO2 would at 14knots and I've been out on it upto 35knots.
I was out on my Trix in really light winds on the Sunday just been. The wind was ranging from 14 - 18 knots, it was just enough for me
to edge upwind in the gusts bearing in mind I use a small board as well.
The only issue I had with it was the tubes blowing off when the kite impacted the water with the lines wrapping around the tubes and
pulling them out.
I had the tubes blow out on me twice in Cape Town and once back home in March.
Was quite lucky with my second blow out in Cape Town as I was half a mile from the shoreline so got a tow in from some other fellow
kitesurfer.
Luckily I was in the shallows on the last occassion back home in March.
Spoke to some other guy no the beach who had a new Sonic and he got his conversion kit from Airjam.
I then gave Shem a call and he sorted me out with the conversion kit - larger softer updated tubes. Now put them onto my kite and its
sweet as. Got the zip ties real tight so there should be no more excuses for them popping off anymore. Hapy days
Not had any problems with the stitching.
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Fat Shady
A Force-of-Nature * 
Member #: 1506 Posts 178
Registered: 6-10-2005 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 5-4-2007 at 16:37 |
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Fat Shady
A Force-of-Nature *
Member #: 1506 Posts 178
Registered: 6-10-2005 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 5-4-2007 at 16:45 |
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I think this is pretty poor when an importer feels the need to discredit a customer and damage his reputation, especially when he can
only offer anecdotal evidence.
It dosent matter if the kite was used 3 times or for 3 months, its a manufacturing fault!
I was certainly treated a lot better by slingshot. They replaced a kite after a full seasons use to ensure that I was satisfied.
Thats customer service.
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shem
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| posted on 5-4-2007 at 18:20 |
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Yes, but remember all shops speak to each other, so customers build reputations as well as shops! Ill say no more. This is the up side
and down side to forums. Blowmotion have warranted kites many a time after 12 months of use, when there is a legite reason to.
Unfortunetly you cant please every one, and thats true for every thing.
Kite & SUP wales
Caravan decking wales
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ajdesq
A Force-of-Nature * 
F-O-N Champion 2003
Member #: 6 Posts 214
Registered: 24-7-2002 Member Is Offline Mood: Living to kitesurf :-)
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| posted on 5-4-2007 at 22:48 |
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Might as well add my bit... I've got 2 06 GKs, 1 of which was an ex-school kite, but does have the 'upgrade' patches. Touch wood I have
had no quality issues whatsoever, and these kites have really been bashed. I don't like the depower system on GK1 and this was
addressed with GK2. After splashing out on GK2 lines I'm really pleased with the kites, bar the odd kitemare! ;-)
There's more to life than KITESURFING!
Let me know when you find it.
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savage
Hot shot
Member #: 644 Posts 48
Registered: 13-4-2004 Location: Birmingham Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 6-4-2007 at 08:16 |
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Shem, I bought 2 kites from a certain shop. After realising the depower wasn’t 100% and that there were no instructions on the
kite for the new 2007 kites. (I even have an email from the kite manufacturer saying that they haven’t yet produced any). I
pointed this out to the shop. I was offered a full refund by email from the guy that owns the shop. I didn’t ask for a refund.
The problem was that after this it seemed that the shop owner had a change of heart. I did send one of the kites back with sand on, but
this was because I didn’t have anywhere to clean it. I then took it back off them and cleaned it. I eventually got my money back
less a few quid. Shem, please enlighten me about the other shop who say have had problems with me as i only used to get all my stuff
from this shop? Shem, who are blowmotion and can you send me their details please. I am quite annoyed that my same thread was taken off
the flexi site. It seems that people try and bully you to not to talk about any issues that you might have with your kit. These people
usually being importers & sellers.
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shem
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| posted on 6-4-2007 at 10:26 |
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Hi Ben, please dont think I have a issue personally with you, but your initial thread was daming in a way that shouldnt have been.
Seans photos clearly indicate that ecen if you have only used your kites for a 2 week period, they must have had a lot of abuse. I for
one can confirm that my new GKs, have had months of use, but because I take care of them, and rarely bash them around, the cloth stil
looks like new. Seans problem with yours is the obvious wear and tare signs which any shop, distrubutor would pick up on. As for your
thread being taken off flexi, I noticed that my self, Ive had it happen to me neumerous times, and I can guarantee you it has nothing
to do with the air jam or sonic crew, as there are no ties there. Blow motion are the people that import GK to the uk, another branch
of Air Jam.
When I spoke of customers building up bad reputations I wasnt speaking about you, I was generalising. most stockist talk to each other,
so if some one is calling around shops trying to get deals, discounts, etc, moaning about kites, trying to blag stuff, the usuals.
Basically every body knows what is going on, and warns others in advance. Just the same as every other industry, its the way it is.
Im all for forum truth, as long as it is the truth.
Any way, hope your happy with your kite and enjoying it now.
Kite & SUP wales
Caravan decking wales
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savage
Hot shot
Member #: 644 Posts 48
Registered: 13-4-2004 Location: Birmingham Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 6-4-2007 at 11:07 |
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My 2006 kite is still fine. If I am so heavy handed why hasn’t the material on that fallen apart after over a years use? Yes it
has had to be stitched a couple of times but that is normal for most sonic users that I know. Yet the 2007 kite is worn out after I
have used it for 2 weeks?? Have they changed the quality of material that they use to make them? I will wash the kite and take some
pics
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savage
Hot shot
Member #: 644 Posts 48
Registered: 13-4-2004 Location: Birmingham Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 6-4-2007 at 11:53 |
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Just washed it. Looks a bit different to the pictures sean took.
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Fat Shady
A Force-of-Nature *
Member #: 1506 Posts 178
Registered: 6-10-2005 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 6-4-2007 at 22:08 |
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Savage,
I think this talk of being a bad customer and the amount of use your kite has had is just a smoke screen to discredit you and deflect
attention away from the real issue which is build quality.
It looks like a manufacturing fault. I wouldnt bother with this crap any more, you are covered by the sale of goods act e.g not of
merchantable quality. It is enforecable by the local trading standards office. Contact them and put it in their hands.
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Sean C
Beach Bum 
Member #: 1509 Posts 16
Registered: 7-10-2005 Location: UK Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 7-4-2007 at 17:03 |
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Hi, firstly, thanks to Shem for copying my reply over from flexiforum ... although it is a little out of context as it was in reply
after Ben's second post on that forum all of which has now been removed by flexi mods.
So, I'm sorry Judge 'Fat Shady', anon as you are to me and most... but there is no 'smoke screen' or any attempt to deflect anything
here. Just facts. I'm told that you are a mate of Mr. Savage anyway so I guess your informed and educated opinion on this is expected.
Genius... get a mate to come on forum and swing your bat for you.
One simple fact is that the kite I received back for a warranty claim was hammered and in a very poor state as the detailed close up
photos of a dry kite very clearly show. I've got battered 8 year old wipika classic school kites that would look shiny new if I hosed
'em down and took pics of 'em dripping wet in the sunshine.
I can see through sand and salt so that was never the issue... though anyone happy to send anything back for a warranty assessment in
such appalling condition is hardly doing their case any favours. Its akin to taking a brand new car rallying and then taking it back to
a dealer with worn tyres, caked in mud and battered with stone chips and demanding a replacement car 'cos the suspension has developed
a squeek... you gonna get a new car ? No.
Regardless of everything... there is no Sonic build quality issue here. This is the only incidence of any seam stress any 07 Sonic from
well over 100 kites in use throughout a very windy 4 month period since its release.
Never the less, a free repair was offered... under warranty. Its a simple, tiny, nigh on invisible repair at that. That would be
entirely normal procedure in the industry across all suppliers/manufacturers in a case like this.
Sometimes kites get replaced under warranty... sometimes they get a free repair under warranty... sometimes there is an offer of
meeting half way on a repair... and sometimes damage is not considered a warranty at all.
In 10 years of dealing kites as a retailer including 5 as an importer I have handled warranty claims that have resulted in all of these
scenarios with a wide range of brands... including 'Slingshot'. 10 years is a lot of kites and customers. I know how things work... I
know how to asses a kite and I have an exceptional customer service record in all this time with nothing like this 'customer' attitude
ever having become an issue.
If anything I have been accused of being too soft with things like warranties that are within my power to make descisions about or
influence.
Mad thing here is that when I told Ben that it was unlikely to be a replacement kite but a free repair he just said 'send it back then'
as it was already repaired and asked if I would meet the repair cost... which I said I would.... Next thing I know he's 'teaching me a
lesson' by posting his one sided version all over the internet. No indication he's going postal, no adult discussion... no trying to
work out an arrangement or deal that would make everyone happy like anyone else would do.
It is a shame that it should so very quickly escalate to Ben using forums to try to bully and discredit ... as he's said in a PM to me
on flexiforum... he's out to teach me a lesson and ensure that bad news travels fast etc.
Well, crack on fella but I won't be bullied by you or your mates vindictive use of forums.
and... again, despite your paranoid accusations of some conspiracy between me and flexifoil to remove your posts on their forum, that
has nothing to do with me.
Like I said, I wish it was still there because with both sides presented it ended up being a 3 page thread of the community's kiters
calling you out as a blagger whilst fully supporting my stance along with confirming that the customer service record of Airjam has
been second to none over the years.
Why would I want that removed ? It would save me having to reply to anything here for a start... I'd gladly just post a link.
See you at the beach sometime.
Regards,
Sean
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