Airborne
A Force-of-Nature **
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posted on 18-4-2004 at 14:23 |
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Measuring Waves
That's a good point! I knew it wouldn't be that big most of the time. What are the mud flaps? I think i might try it out....a messy
small wave with sediment can't be as bad as no wave at all!
Do they usually have lifeguards in the summer, or is it not that kinda beach?
Being sort of a novice i need to know what "blow out" means. Is it when there are no waves or what?
Final question! Does 2-3 ft look around this size?
Airborne has attached this image:
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justal
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posted on 18-4-2004 at 17:27 |
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LOL
'Blow Out' means that its affected by the wind and gets choppy and messy once thw ind is on it.
2-3 foot is MUCh bigger than the photo you posted...Thats more like 6 inches!!! 2-3 foot surf will give you faces that are just below
chest high to head high.
Al.
URL: Pixelwave Design - Website Design Wales
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Personal Weblog: A Simple Life of Luxury in West Wales
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Airborne
A Force-of-Nature **
Member #: 325 Posts 486
Registered: 19-8-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Well and truly Stoked!
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posted on 19-4-2004 at 19:28 |
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Errr....yeah i knew that!
I thought that the wave was a bit small when i posted it...LOL. Why am i laughing again?
Anyway thanks for that definition on "blow out" Al. Yet another question coming up....do you mean chest to head height on a full sized
man, because 2-3ft doesn't sound to big?
I think that i need to get my measureing tape out when i go to Croyde again, i'm going crazy!
Cheers all. Airborne.
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SinistaPenguin
Pro
Member #: 359 Posts 122
Registered: 9-9-2003 Location: Leamington, Midlands Member Is Offline Mood: Getting less surf than my avat
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posted on 22-4-2004 at 14:56 |
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Wave size is a tough one - everyone measures it differently.
Take this conversation for example:
Walking down the beach:
Beginner: "Wow, those waves look pretty big"
Expert: "Nah, that's 1 1/2 maybe 2 feet"
Out back:
Expert (to another guy): "Last time I was down here, it was at least 2 ft bigger and much cleaner"
(to himself) "jeez, this is huge - I'm going to die out here"
Walking back up the beach:
Beginner: "I just don't get it - I'm sure they were more than 1 1/2 to 2 ft"
Expert: "There may have been the odd 3ft 'sneaker set'"
In the Pub:
Beginner: "I dread to think what 6-8ft is like - I was terrified today"
Expert (to his mates): "Man, you should have been there - it was double overhead - at least 12 feet!"
You get the picture!
I tend to gauge it in terms of fear.
NOT AT ALL SCARED (BORED) = probably a little on the small side
NOT SCARED (But having a great time) = small, but super fun
A LITTLE WORRIED (But still having a great time) = a good size
GETTING SCARED EVERY FEW SETS = pushing your limits
TERRIFIED = get out of the water!
This I think is a good rule of thumb, cos then it doesn't matter how big it actually is! It could be that 2ft terrifies you!
Cheers
Sinista
"...that's just the lemon next to the pie..."
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Airborne
A Force-of-Nature **
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posted on 22-4-2004 at 16:06 |
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That's superb. LOL! That's a great way of looking at it. I might try looking at it that way. It's sort of like a lesson, everyone
should use it in some respects...but then you get the die hard fans, that have to get it perfect!
I found this thing about how to measure waves. It seems like everyone uses different ways of measureing waves. Why make it confusing?
Can't we just all have the same thing and stick to it. Anway here it is:
"Measuring waves:
Here's some funny-but-true info that will keep you from being labelled a "kook".
In the wave riding world, there's sort of a standard to measuring waves that has no basis in anything other than tradition when giving
foot measurements. Here's the general rule of thumb when measuring waves:
You may use all the numbers up to 6 feet, but when giving a range of wave size. Example- It was 1-2 feet. It was 3-5 feet. It was 4-6
feet.
Above 6 feet, you may only use even numbers, or multiples of 5. Example- It was 6-8 feet, it was 8-10 feet, it was 10-12 feet, it was
12-15 feet.
You can't say: It was 7-9 feet, it was 11-13 feet...and for some bizarre reason, saying it was 14 feet isn't acceptable. That number is
rarely used to measure waves.
Above 20 feet, you only measure waves in increments of 5 feet.
Now, we move on to how to measure waves:
Basically, there are 4 ways that I've learned to measure waves, and that depends on where you are in the world.
East coast USA: Waves are measured using body parts until it gets overhead. Example: It's knee high, stomach high, thigh high, chest
high, etc.
West coast USA: Also use body parts, though not as detailed as east coast. West coasters don't use "thigh high", or "stomach high".
Face height is typically used to measure waves, the wave's rideable face from trough to crest. Therefore, with an average man being
close to 6 feet tall, a head high wave is 6 feet.
Hawaii: 1/2 the face height. Not sure why this is done, but that's just how they do it. There's alot of theories as to why, but who
knows. A head high wave in Hawaii is 3 feet.
Australia: These guys have the weirdest method that has been described to me by my Aussie friends as measured by "the powerful part of
the wave". So, for example, a mushy head high wave to an Aussie would be about 3 feet, but a top-to-bottom barreling head high wave
might be 5 feet. Neither measurement is accurate technically, but that's how they do it. Plus, they measure the swell height in meters
anyway.
So, there's "Wave Measurement 101" for those of you still in the learning process. "
Airborne.
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SinistaPenguin
Pro
Member #: 359 Posts 122
Registered: 9-9-2003 Location: Leamington, Midlands Member Is Offline Mood: Getting less surf than my avat
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posted on 23-4-2004 at 10:22 |
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Hawaiian style is apparent the waves measured from the back - so if you're sitting in the lineup and you look back at the wave you just
paddled over, just as it breaks you'd say - 'hey, that's about 3 ft' although if you were looking at the face of the wave, you would
see it was about 6 ft!
At least that's what I heard!
Sinista
"...that's just the lemon next to the pie..."
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Airborne
A Force-of-Nature **
Member #: 325 Posts 486
Registered: 19-8-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Well and truly Stoked!
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posted on 23-4-2004 at 17:26 |
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That's intersteing about the Hawaiian way of measuring the wave. Hi tim, i'll give you an e-mail about the south west of France if i
want and info etc. Cheers, that's great. I'll do that right now in fact! (So check your e-mails!) Does anyone know any surf spots in
the south of France? Or near the D-Day beaches in the North?
Thanks. Airborne.
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justal
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posted on 29-4-2004 at 06:00 |
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Heres some more stuff on measuring waves....
HOW TO MEASURE A WAVE
Written by Ricky Grigg (ultimate big wave & surf legend)
as printed in the Surfers Journal volume 12, number 1, 2003 Ricky Griggs
quote: Once upon a time, an old Hawaiian surfer told me that those surfers who measure from the back have already missed the wave. Of
course, you could argue that surfers who measure the wave from the back do so on purpose so that they can purposefully underestimate
their size. But why would anyone want to do that you ask? Perhaps they are the macho guys. "Shucks ma, that overhead wave is only three
feet, at least to me. Its no big deal". But then one day a wise guy like me comes along and says, "Three feet, for an overhead wave?
What are you anyway, only three feet tall?" The 56" surfer
says, "Huh? What? Are you blind?" "No" I say," maybe you are blind. That overhead wave was way over your fully upright body." "Hey
man," he tells me, "you measure waves from the back." I say, "You mean the back of the wave you cant see?" And of course he says,
"Right on, dude, right on"
Wish that all this banter was much ado about nothing, but unfortunately it is not. There is a history and a very good reason why so
many surfers these days measure from the back. Lets go back about 40 or 50 years in Hawaii and revisit the golden years of surfing and
try and find the answer. Back then waves were bigger, bluer, and much less crowded. Surfers at Waikiki rode huge waves all measured
from the front. Duke Kahanamokus famous 1.1mile ride had to have been 20"plus when it first broke at first break (out near Castles).
Todays surfers would have called it 10 had they been there. Trouble is, had they been there, they would not have been able to see the
wave, at least not from the beach. So how did all this back of the wave nonsense get started anyway?
I was surfing the North Shore in those days, the late 50s, 60s and 70s, and what started to happen very slowly over this time period
was a gradual tendency to underestimate waves. As it got worse and worse, everyone started realizing that the smaller the estimates
were, the smaller the reports were on the radio and TV, and fewer and fewer people were showing up to surf on any given day. Hey, man,
this was way cool. A super cool method began to develop to keep the surf a secret. Eight to 10 waves at Sunset slowly became 4-5 with a
few pulses. But how in Gods name could anyone call an 8 wave 4, or a 10 wave 5? Not that difficult. The surfers and lifeguards simply
invented an new system of measuring the waves from the back. It worked great, because, of course, waves from the back are about half
their size from the front. Since few people could actually see the backs of the waves, few people could disagree or claim otherwise.
Fewer Townies went to the North Shore and the local guys had the waves all to themselves. The lifeguards liked it too, because they had
fewer people to guard and so they could go surfing longer. The system prospered and more and more surfers grew up believing that
measuring the waves from the back was the way to do it.
End of story. There were a few old-timers around who remembered the old way, the first way, the simple way, the face-value,
from-the-top-to-the-bottom way, from the front, from the crest-to-the-trough, the way oceanographers define wave height, the way in
which ordinary people can judge a wave simply by looking at it. By its face value. Not only did the old-timers remember, but they also
reminded the lifeguards about safety. It wasnt to safe to broadcast to Hawaiis tourists that 8-10waves were only 4-5. People drowning
and getting slammed into the bottom by shorebreak could sue, and guess what, they did sue. A number of visitors throughout the Islands
suffered severe neck injuries producing paraplegia and quadriplegia, all caused by shorebreak waves that were larger than those
reported. Several cases were settled or won to the tune of millions of dollars. It was not long before the City and County of Honolulu
was under a powerful economic and legal gun to change the system back to the old way of measuring waves from the front by the face.
This old way is now called the "new" way, because so many young surfers never heard of the old way, until now perhaps.
The "new" has been adopted by the National Weather Service in Honolulu and is now reported by all of Hawaiis news media: newspapers,
radio, TV everyone. Even the lifeguards are now reporting face values. A special course in how to measure and report surf was designed
by the National Weather Service tailored specifically for the lifeguards of the City and County of Honolulu. Over the course of about
15 months (in 2000 and 2001) about 80 lifeguards successfully completed the class. With this new awareness, the lifeguards have
embraced the "new" policy. And, there is no question that their first and foremost concern is safety for Hawaiis visitors and residents
alike. Its been a rapid transition back to the old way, the simple way, the safe way, and the HONEST way. Its just like my old Hawaiian
friend said, "Never measure the wave you missed. Its the one you
ride that counts"
Al.
URL: Pixelwave Design - Website Design Wales
Shop: Website Templates
Personal Weblog: A Simple Life of Luxury in West Wales
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Thodd
A Force-of-Nature * Most active Body-boarder 2004
Member #: 446 Posts 278
Registered: 14-11-2003 Location: Manchester Member Is Offline Mood: itchin to get wet!!!
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posted on 29-4-2004 at 07:54 |
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I've always thought that waves were measured from the back? Isn't it something to do with forcasting the swell?
ie... waves out in the sea don't break because the water they are in is to deep... so it could be said that it they don't have a face
and both front and back are the same size. When the Bouys are bobbing up and down sending all that scientific data back to scientific
places it is that size that they record.
Obviously the Hawaiian way far outdates this way, so everything I just said is rubbish.... but I think it helps make sense of it
all!
PS.... If i'm surfing 3ft waves(from the back) i'll always recall the story in the pub later as "they were 6ft". Then depending on how
much beer i've had the following words seem to appear aswell;
clean
tubing
glassy
and if I start on the whisky;
"A freakish 10ft set every 15mins or so!"
"I got air"
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SinistaPenguin
Pro
Member #: 359 Posts 122
Registered: 9-9-2003 Location: Leamington, Midlands Member Is Offline Mood: Getting less surf than my avat
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posted on 29-4-2004 at 15:33 |
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OK. Here's the thing
Waves look different from the beach, to when you're out there.
I posted this on another forum to show how everyone measures differently.
How big is this wave?
SinistaPenguin has attached this image:
"...that's just the lemon next to the pie..."
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Airborne
A Force-of-Nature **
Member #: 325 Posts 486
Registered: 19-8-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Well and truly Stoked!
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posted on 29-4-2004 at 19:02 |
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Good question! Can't you just take a meter stick out with you when you surf?
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justal
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posted on 29-4-2004 at 19:14 |
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It always looks a LOT smaller than it really is from the beach!!
Al.
URL: Pixelwave Design - Website Design Wales
Shop: Website Templates
Personal Weblog: A Simple Life of Luxury in West Wales
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Thodd
A Force-of-Nature * Most active Body-boarder 2004
Member #: 446 Posts 278
Registered: 14-11-2003 Location: Manchester Member Is Offline Mood: itchin to get wet!!!
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posted on 30-4-2004 at 07:51 |
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I fell for that theory at Croyde Al!!!
It was a VERY low tide... and the waves looked pathetic. We got our kit together walked to the sea... it still looked like rubbish
surf...
I paddled out and got an absolute spanking from mother nature! I spent 90% of that session holding my breath underwater !
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Airborne
A Force-of-Nature **
Member #: 325 Posts 486
Registered: 19-8-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Well and truly Stoked!
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posted on 30-4-2004 at 18:51 |
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LOL! I know what you mean! One time in France near Les Dunes, i think, i found a beach which i went to on a really dull windy day. It
was miserable, anyway i turned to my mum and said "it looks a bit small and rubbish, but i might as well go in and try it" (i did this
to annoy my brother who wanted to go back to the caravan). The waves were really rough and messy, loads of white water, and it didn't
help that i hadn't learned to duck dive yet!
I tried to get out back for about half an hour, but realised that i wasn't getting anywhere because the waves seemed to be bigger than
on the shore, the waves/whitewater just kept pushing me back. There was also some crazy current or something where if i paddled forward
to try and get "out back" i ended up going sideways without realising. So i ended up quite a far distance away from where my stuff on
the beach was. Is there any way i can stop this from happening, any advice to help me keep paddling in a straight line to where my
stuff is on the beach?
I just couldn't believe that there was another bodyboarder (fully grown experienced sponger) was out there riding those messy
waves...this refers back to my post about bodyboarders liking messy waves as well on another post.
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Thodd
A Force-of-Nature * Most active Body-boarder 2004
Member #: 446 Posts 278
Registered: 14-11-2003 Location: Manchester Member Is Offline Mood: itchin to get wet!!!
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posted on 4-5-2004 at 15:07 |
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It sounds like you were caught in a nasty rip tide!
I'm afraid you cannt really stop them as the sea will always be more powerful than you. The worst mistake alot of people make is trying
to swim against them..... this will hardley ever work, instead swim sideways to it
I know that its not the easiest thing to do especially if its a sideways rip.
You'll understand them better and how to deal with them, with time and experience.
Sometimes they can be your greatest friend and give you a conveyor belt express route straight out to the back of the line up.
Othertimes they can be a pain in the @rse and put you in real danger!
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Airborne
A Force-of-Nature **
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Registered: 19-8-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Well and truly Stoked!
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posted on 5-5-2004 at 18:02 |
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The thing is Thodd i don't get much experience!
A rip tide sounds about right though! When i tried swimming sideways, it did seem to work...it's just my mum wanted me to stay inside
the lifegaurd area because it was pretty rough! By paddling sideways do you mean diagonally to advance forwards a liitle. Or is it
paddling at a right angle to the beach to get out the rip tide?
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Thodd
A Force-of-Nature * Most active Body-boarder 2004
Member #: 446 Posts 278
Registered: 14-11-2003 Location: Manchester Member Is Offline Mood: itchin to get wet!!!
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posted on 6-5-2004 at 07:39 |
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Basically you need to swim at a right angle to which ever way the rip tide is going. In essence, use the quickest, easiest and safest
route to get out of it!
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Airborne
A Force-of-Nature **
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Registered: 19-8-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Well and truly Stoked!
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posted on 6-5-2004 at 17:03 |
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Oh right i've heard that before many times. Once you get out of the current you can start swimming forward again, right? How can you
tell (see) where a current is, what could i look for? Or can you only "feel" the current?
I already know that to paddle out look for bobbing up and down of whitewater, because this is where low pressure is and therefore it is
the best/easiest place to duckdive to get out back.
Cheers.
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Thodd
A Force-of-Nature * Most active Body-boarder 2004
Member #: 446 Posts 278
Registered: 14-11-2003 Location: Manchester Member Is Offline Mood: itchin to get wet!!!
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posted on 7-5-2004 at 08:14 |
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I use anybody else thats in the sea as a marker to see if i'm moving in a direction that I don't want to be. Also give yourself a
marker on the beach (A sand dune etc) this'll tell you if your moving to the side.
If you stand on the beach and look out to sea, you'll see all the breaking waves, in the places where the waves break the least is
where there might be a rip. Usually this is on both ends of the beach and there will be one in the middle (possible 2 if its a long
beach). Theres a beach I sometimes go to called Hells Mouth in north wales. Its over 2 miles long and as you can guess its rip tide
hell!
To duck dive I've always usedone it this way. When the wave is breaking and it lips over. The point on the water were the wave hits as
it breaks is the best place to duck dive. If done correctly the force of the wave will "suck" you under and you'll pop out behind
it!
......in theory! But the amount of times i've buggered it up and got washed away with massive waves....
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Airborne
A Force-of-Nature **
Member #: 325 Posts 486
Registered: 19-8-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Well and truly Stoked!
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posted on 8-5-2004 at 15:47 |
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LOL! I must try to perfect my duck diving skills this year...yet again you are the master of advice. Rips, where to duck dive ect. I've
even seen pros sort of duck dive in 6 inch white water near the shore to gain a little more time and effort and not to lose speed.
There is another type of duck dive thing where your board goes under the wave but your body goes over the top without you getting
wet...what is this called again? Isn't something like the "up and over - under" manuver?
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