Right time for a rant!

I've just got back from taking a little walk over to the beach to see what the wind was doing. As I walked along the pebble ridge I was thinking about the amount of rubbish in the dunes when I bumped into a dog walker. After saying hello the first thing the dog-walker said to me was:

"Have you seen how much mess the kite-surfers have made in the car park - are they actually allowed to camp there?"

As I was already thinking about the rubbish on the beach I took a walk over to the car park to see for myself. There were a few vans and tents in the car park and the remnants of a night spent around a campfire. A couple of chairs, a stereo and a few other bits and pieces around a smouldering fire along with a load of empty cans and bottles and various bits of plastic bag and plastic plates blowing around.

Clearly these could have been left by anyone but with the vans and tents nearby it was likely to be the people sleeping in them.

As I was looking a local walked past who immediately started moaning about the rubbish as well. I don't know the local that well, but they know that I windsurf and so assumed that I knew the owners of the vans and tents and therefore started ranting at me about the mess and asked me to tell them to clear it up and sort it out. They also said that they thought people shouldn't be allowed to camp in the car park.

Now, I'm sure the mess was cleared up as much of it was clearly possessions that would be put back in vans etc, but that isn't really the point. Some of the rubbish had blown away and probably would never get cleared up, but more to the point is the fact that leaving the rubbish there in the first place has meant that you've already upset a few people who now associate rubbish on the beach with kitesurfers.

Everyone knows that being able to camp on the beach here at Borth is a privilege that you don't have in most places. In order to keep that privilege people camping there should ensure that they don't make any mess whatsoever. Really you should be spending windless afternoons cleaning the beach and improving it, not contributing to the litter problems.

Everyone I met on the beach this morning was complaining about the mess, and although I'm sure you intend to clear it up, I have to agree with them. It did look pretty bad, it did look as though it had been left by the 'kitesurfers' camping in the nearby vans and the people I spoke to were completely justified with their rants.

It only takes one of them to complain to the council for them to start clamping down.

Al.

Should just report the people doing it Al, When I worked for the harbours, I as able to issue asbos and thousand pound fines pretty much on the spot for littering, through a scheme set up with the local poilce, Im sure the CCw staff probably have the same policy?

The mess Al refers to was left by a group of 6 or so people who arrived in a dark red/maroon T4 sat afternoon. None of them were wind or kitesurfers. When they left late sat afternoon I assumed they were popping down the pub or the chippy, cos they left 3 chairs, some items of clothing and a radio - along with a scatter of empty tins and bottles and other rubbish.

Sadly it was all still there this morning. Maybe just maybe they are planning to return and clear up their mess..... but I won't hold my breath.

All the regular users of the carpark - certainly those of us who use it for watersports - are largely very tidy and never leave anything behind. Moreover there have been a couple of occasions when a number of us have spent a while collecting rubbish and removing it. Unfortunately though the casual oberver sees vans overnighting and piles of rubbish - and puts the 2 together.

Alwaya the same, just takes one bad apple to get every one in the shit. best thing to do is confront people about it, I a hve done a few times over on dyfi side, including people that let there dogs shit on the beach, its always good seeing peoples faces when you make them pick up a pile of dog shit they where walking away from, LOL

Sitting here in a very hot and sunny windless Turkey we read this post with dismay. Please Al I am sure that you are well aware when the majority of the Massif are parked up at Borth we do our very best to keep the area tidy and police others that are not so tidy.

The marority of the massif are currently on holiday maybe you could have supported us when talking to the local folks and emphasise the resposibilty of the majority of the regulars and that we appriciate the privilage (not to say pay handsomely for it too).

See you all at the weekend.

Chris, Cath, Andy and Kath

PS watch out all litter louts as I will set the dog on you.

windless, hehe, its honking here, ( a bit of sun would be nice tho hey)!

I left the car park at 6.45 tonight and much of the rubbish had been cleared away (stable doors and horses spring to mind) a couple of carrier bags round my parking spot came home with me but as Al points out, by the time I arrived at 8.30 this morning our cards were (rightly or wrongly) marked

Unfortunately you are all right. It only takes one bad apple and people do jump to conclusions.

I knew it wouldn't have been any of the regulars, as you say you do your best to leave things as clean if not cleaner than when you arrived. But, the people who were moaning about the mess were right to do so and as I'm sure those who saw it will agree it did look as though it had been left by the people camping in the car park.

It is a difficult situation though as you can't be expected to police everyone else in the car park just because you are going to camp there. And when the litter bugs leave chairs and a stereo etc behind it does look as though they are going to return and clear it up themselves, so how would you know when to intervene and confront them about leaving the rubbish there?

Not an easy situation. It sounds as though it wasn't kitesurfers or even people camping there who were in the wrong but some holiday-makers who just upped and left at the end of the day. The people pointing their fingers weren't in the wrong either as they were just upset (as I'm sure the campers were and I was) to find such a mess on the beach in the morning.

Lets just hope the returned later in the day and found it all cleared up.

Al.

I have to agree, when I arrived at the beach it looked a total mess.

Spooker is right, there was a dark maroon T4 ( holidaymakers) there on Sunday afternoon having a bbq.

But I have to say, one of Graham's mates was boasting to me Monday am, on how they had kept that fire alight all night by putting a 25 kg bag of coal on it. I then came to the conclusion it was their mess.

I was going to ask Graham, but then saw he and his mates clearing it up. It should of been done before they went to bed if it was theirs! Maybe Graham you could shed some light on this, was it your group?

In all fairness, Lara and myself have been here since Wednesday and as Lara gets the job of sitting in my van and watching me! She has been commenting on how a lot of the holidaymakers have just been letting their rubbish blow into the dunes.

Maybe next time we're all waitng for the wind to blow, we should all take a black bin bag and fill it with litter.

At least, when Phil ran the carpark, he was out every morning picking up litter......... Did anyone ever see Daffid do that???????? Bring back Phil!!!!!!!!!!

By the way its howling at the mo!!!!!!!!!!! Off we go again.......... My body hurts!!!!!!!!!!

Dunks

Sorry to hear about the mess at Borth.
Haven't been down for a few weeks as the Massif are on summer hols, but I know my van usually ends up as the dustbin run as we put all the rubbish from the weekend in my garage.
Shame that when we are away some folks will spoil it for the regulars.
Will have to be extra vigilant next time we are down.

Just to add my two pence worth been noticing lots of shit left all over the place to.i know its not the point and people should be shot for leaving rubbish,but surely whoever gets the cash for the parking should sort some kind of bins out.pretty sure there used to be.know it wouldn't solve the problem but its gotta help.

Actually in most places bins make the problem of rubbish worse. This is because the bins encourage people to leave their rubbish rather than take it home with them and unless they are emptied several times a day on busy days they just get too full and then rubbish blows around and the problem is worse.

It has been tried and tested in loads of places and bins almost always make it worse.

Al.

Davydd the carpark did put some large bins in last year, which got filled up very quickly. Unfortunately he didn't really think it through, cos he lugged them all down to the local dump and was told as it was commercial waste he'd have to pay to dispose of it. So he put them all back (full) where they festered for a while before he/someone attempted to burn it all.

All in all not a very satisfactory state of affairs. But as its a private carpark and he has the concession - its up to him, or us, or no-one to make the effort!

Al I totally agree with your comments.

I have a big problem with litter and the scruffy b....rds that seem to think they can chuck their crap anywhere they please.

I've been vocal on several occasions with people who seem to think it ok to dump their garbage at the beach. The general response in most cases is a threat to punch my lights out or to "f..k off - someone will pick it up".

The state of the car park in Borth is applaing. The vast majority of the "priveliged few" that stay on the beach clean up after themselves.

However, what I have noticed this year is that the car park has been opened up to a bunch of randoms. The last bunch appeared to create a pile of bags and bottles that I can only assume were left behind when they departed. They pay their money and expect someone else to clear up after them.

The bottom line to all this is that we now live in a society that has no respect. The problem is likely to get worse and we will be penalised as a result. We all moan about it but we should act on it.

The only option I see is for all of us on this forum using the carpark is to set an example by not leaving empty cans bottles and other items outside vans/cars at any time of day or night. Clean up each night and don't give the local folk any reason to complain.

Secondly, and this might be controversial, but we should all make an effort to do some litter clearance at our end of the beach. We all trundle to the toilets in Borth in the morining, so we should all bring a black bag each and do a bit of litter picking before we go and throw it in the bins in borth.

If we set such an example then we might be better placed as a group to hassle people who mess up our campsite. If we chose to ignore the situation then we have to accept the consequences.

We are exteemley priveliged to have a place to stay and we should nurture it.

Sermon over - off to put the bins out - it's collection day tomorrow

See you all soon

Rich

baileyman, I'm a newcomer here and know the luxury you guys have at this location compared to what I have experienced elsewhere. Count me in, I want to spend the winter riding this beach with the unrestricted access you guys have enjoyed. Whatever it takes........... I said my piece when I met Al on the beach at the weekend my words on this thread are done

[Edited on 28-8-2008 by jack russell]

I have to admit we've noticed a big increase in the amount of litter left lying around in the last few weeks. It's a shame that the locals can't always see the bigger picture though in that there's very little problem with litter left lying around in the Winter months when virtually the only people visiting are kiters! We always take all of our rubbish away as most responsible people do but unfortunately there will always be a minority who don't give a s**t! We love our kiting at Borth and would be very upset and annoyed if we lost the privilege of camping there, so will do all we can to make sure this doesn't happen.

Paul

I had the same thoughts as Reecey, if the locals noticed that rubbish is directly proportional to the number of summer visitors they wouldn't associate it directly with kite flyers. On some occasions out of season our end of the carpark can be even busier than summer - but no trash!

Its not an answer to the litter problem of course, rightly or wrongly thats solely in our hands.

As Baileyman says, clearing up litter when possible even if it isn't ours has to be a good thing. Its annoying that we should have to do it but it keeps the beach nice for us all... As well as doing it whenever we get the chance maybe we should organise a proper 'Forces-of-Nature' beach clean up afternoon as well.

I'm not sure how it works if you organise such a thing I'm pretty sure you have to sort it out with the council and get proper bags and gloves etc but as well as making a difference to the litter it would be good for public relations and help show the locals that the kite-flyers, windsurfers and others here are as passionate about keeping the beach clean as they are. Anyone would be welcome to join us but if we make a point that it has been organised by the kitesurfers and windsurfers it has to help.

I can look into the logisitics of it with the council if others will be up for it.

Al.

Al - I'm more than happy to do a clean up afternoon. It would be a good PR excercise and maybe get the local press to come down get some pics and allow us to make our views known for the record.

Only problem is I'm not going to be back to borth til Mid October. I'm out of the country on business then off to France kiting for 3 weeks. But will happily attend once I'm back home.

Rich

If you'll do that Al I think everyone who is about should and will lend a hand. If we can get the council to provide the bags and remove them all the better.

I'm in

After reading this article on rubbish, what is exactly what it appears to be, like to point out few key facts, firstly to blame one particular group of people for the rubbish at Borth is very closed minded, the simple fact is that anyone from any back ground who goes to Borth is capable of leaving rubbish on or around the beach, normally the culprits are people who do not have any respect for the environment they are visiting.
The people who go regularly would to my knowledge not dream of polluting the environment, we know and enjoy so much.

There was a Borth council meeting last night so I go the Ynyslas councillor (who just so happens to be Anna) to bring this up at the meeting saying that some of the locals and the regualr kitesurfers/windsurfers were concerned about the amount of rubbish on the beach after the bank holiday weekend and that we wanted to organise a beach clean.

The council are willing to back it and we have a few people to contact first in order to get it organised as we need facilities for disposing of the rubbish we collect etc.

The wheels are in motion and hopefully we'll be able to organise a beach clean soon.

Al.

nice one AL everyone at PKS will help out just shout up when etc, i think all we need is a council skip to be dropped on a friday and collected monday, prefably dropped as near as possible to the last groin area..

just got back from France and must say that the peeps in france seem to respect their beaches far better than some of the slobs i have seen wallowing about and leaving their fish and chip papers etc where they sat!.....a large gun springs to mind!
well done with the litter pick Al, will be up for that!

hey neil better watch out or those bin bags will be full of sonic's....

was gonna say yarga's but they last forever....

just a thought but whilst were chuking stuff out etc can we bin some of spookers pebble dash trousers, there just so wrong

Count me in as well just name the time and the place.

Hey mr blobby -what do you know about dress sense -your wardrobe is a fashion desert - don't run down those that dare to be different.

Al you can me in on the clear up action.

Andy and myself started the ball rolling at the weekend. Firstly Andy cleared the van area and filled a bin bag full(mainly with dog poo bags and nappies) on arrival on Friday night. On seeing Andy do this a few other campers joined in too (not regulars). On Sunday I approached a group camping in the big dune (Polish) and gave them two bin bags and asked if they could clear up and remove their rubbish especially the sanitary products left by the ladies in the group. Surprisingly they did it.

Daffyd was around on Saturday and I did approach him on the litter issue and the fact that he has kept the gate locked open. Firstly and unfortunately he was suffering from a hang over and his language was very colourful and I am unable to repeat this on the forum. He basically does not give a hoot, even when I suggested it could put the car park in jeopardy. His reply was simply 'just let them try', bit sad really. I also suggested to him that leaving the gate open was asking for trouble, but I think the extra little revenue from motorhomes other than the massif he likes (easy money at £5 a pop). Just hope the golf club supports his actions, we will see.

But it does show that when the regular Massif are away that the litter problem is at it's worst, it was a shame that this post started off blaming the "kitesurfers", but we know how you like a debate Al and you certainly stirred it up. But at least the "kitesurfers" have all been the first to offer their support and help

hey spooks, caught my misses watching a programme the other day.. WHAT NOT TO WEAR..

i thought for a minute is was a documentary about YOU

steady boys, you'll be joining Naomi Campbell doing community service with all this banter!

cool

quote:

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Originally posted by shem
Alwaya the same, just takes one bad apple to get every one in the shit. best thing to do is confront people about it, I a hve done a few times over on dyfi side, including people that let there dogs shit on the beach, its always good seeing peoples faces when you make them pick up a pile of dog shit they where walking away from, LOL

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cool

Check out this post for beach cleaning in Borth and Ynyslas.

Al.