Never used this, let's see if it works...

Those in favour of some kind of club representation for the Borth / Ynyslas / Aberdovey / Mid Wales area for the type of activities on this site, windsurfing / kitesurfing / land kiting / surfing / body boarding etc....

It's only a press of a button to see if I'm pissing into the wind here...?

[Edited on 21-5-2005 by Pluto]

good thought pluto ,
but you assume that borth is
THE CENTRE OF THE UNIVERSE
where in truth the spead of registered users to this forum is far greater .

Does that mean you are going to take on the challenge and be the helmsman Pluto??

People have tried to set up clubs before and there is already a Borth Surf Club (Which was originally meant to cover windsurfing, kite-surfing, kayak surfing etc. as well, but in reality caters only for surfers as it was only surfers that joined).
The main problem you will get is that people need to see a benefit of actually joining a club.... Lot sof the locals here never joined the surf club as they couldn't really see the point.
Obviously with kite-surfing it could help give us a voice if there was ever any threats of a ban, but if that happened most people would club together and there would be quite a big voice from the kitesurfers anyway. Most non-kitesurfing locals also REALLY like the fact that the beach is used for kitesurfing and would vote to keep kitesurfing at Borth any day... Good news seeing as they are always trying to ban jet-skiing and even have a pop at the horse-riders now and then.

I guess in a way everyone here is already part of the 'Forces-of-Nature' club and use this to arrange get togethers, events etc. so all we really need is to formailse that in some way.. All the benefits of being part of a club such as communication, organisation and discounts at local (and not so local) stores are already here for free... Maybe we should just build on that?

Al.

Al, I agree in all that you say. To Kelvin, this post is mainly aimed at those that use Borth/Aberdovey area and I appreciate that it is far from the centre of the universe! People from other areas use this site, but feel free to join in. The more the merrier!

The site Al provides here is ace. But it is very informal and although provides an excellant communication platform can not provide the benifits of a club or similar organisation. Yes, I mostly use Borth for kitesurfing and issues around this sport raised the idea in the first place, but am interested to learn if there are any other interested parties.

The point of a club as I see it is to primarily maintain access to beaches and provide a point of contact to thoses looking to enter the sport and thus go about it in a safe way. This can only be achieved and be respected by the formation of a formal club or association that can be demonstrated to represent the wants and needs of it's members. That said there is also the social aspect as well as perhaps the odd competition? This really is a finger in the air to see if any one else has a similar view or other ideas. My feeling from informal discussions is that lots of people like th idea but no one is willing to drive something forward.

As far as benefits of joning are concerned, that's up to the members. Insurance is one that can be offered by affiliation to the BKSA for example. Surely being part of a force acting for the greater good is another. Someone else must have some thoughts. If not then I am pissing in the wind and I'll wind my neck in.....

hi paul just thought i'd reply as you mintioned insurance and affiliation to the bksa.
insurance can be got cheaper throught the british buggy club, it is organised by the same person Ian Merridethand offers exactly the same cover with the same company.
i declined to renew my membership of the bksa a year after doing my IkO instructors course ( as you know you are obliged to join the bksa for your course)as i felt that its benefits are mainly bestowed on the top few riders , in the form of prizes at competitions. i decided that as i work to earn my spare dosh it was up to me who and where i should make donations and they tend to go to deserving charrities; the BKSA is not one!
the forming of a club is a tricky one; as Al rightly says not many peeps want to take on the responsibilty for a thankless job. it is a good idea that we self police our beach as regards insurance and where to launch etc to avoid conflict with locals and holiday peeps.
as of now i cant think of anywhere else that has such a good bunch of responsible and friendly kitersurfers/ windsurfers, using such a great beach and i dont think that we are doing such a bad job of keeping it that way at present.
if it aint broken, dont fix it, could spring to mind ,but there again ,it dont get broken as long as we look after it.

Wise Words Neil. But then, I'd expect no less from you!!

Like I said. I'm just sticking my finger in the air and it seems that you're bang on.

I can't help thinking though that although it ain't broke, does it need some loving maintenance to keep it that way?

i agree ,good point; preventative maintenance is always the way to go.
but who would volunteer to take on the thankless job? now there might be the rib!
still doesnt mean you should not keep plugging away at it!
this year might be the time for us all to be more vigilant on thebeach and practice what we preach; me included.

[Edited on 23/5/05 by mNeil]

Yep... I did notice that everyone (including me) launched from within the groynes on Sunday.... We should ALL be wlaking the few yards north and launch from beyond the little brick building... I know there was no one on the beach but if we all do it then any newcomers will follow suit and the self-policing will have started! Which should make things safer for all once the holiday-makers show up.

Al.

I think Als idea of basing the club around "forces of nature" is a great Idea, especially as it gives the club a potential of over 500 members instantly. The other advantage is for people who dont sail around mid wales. If there local beach gets any banning problems, then we can all stick up for them, using the club as well. Virtually a huge cyber kite club!! ?? Any thoughts?

well i dont mind chipping in and i'm sure the shop wont mind getting involved,

...i'll speak to ian mereidith who runs the british buggy club and see what he says,

self policing is the way to go at the mo and we could start by posting on forums the simple launch rule of by the hut etc, more informal the better maybe use this site for info etc as its all here already....

Al if you need help with hosting costs etc give me a shout and i'll go blagging...or how about a donation fee from the massive??

i think it would be silly to cover everyone under one club i don't want to upset people but i don't want to be affiliated to landboarders or buggyers!!

may not be pc but in my mind it is these sports that are most dangerous to the public and probably more likely to be complained about by them as it uses the land that beach users want to let there dogs crap on and push balls around on. once kitersurfers are out on the sea they are basically away from the public and therfor safer.

the public need educating as do councils that there are different types of kiting. many beach bans in the south and one near liverpool were due to land kiters but the difference was not seen and all kites were banned. thankfully in Ainsdale they only banned the land users as they were educated by the kitesurfers.

if there is to be a club it should be seperate for all the sports to save confusion for the public and the grey people at the council.

to be honest on the most part we don't need one we are all pretty safe bar a few people who don't seem to be on the beach very often anyway and therefor wouldn't join the club but would bring it a bad name by practising the same sport.

All we need are a few non sheep, responsible people who have the nouse and balls to go tell people what is right and wrong and maybe a sign to explain to the public what is going on at the point of the last groyne or something. i don't think we need a club to right a sign!!!

if the club sends new people for lessons to safe guard safety etc etc then who do you point them to??
Shem?
Or YOU!!!!!!!!???????!!!!!!!!
SCANDAL!!!!
if there is one it will have to be independant of stuff like that or we may end up with arguements!

calm dowm Will ,its only an idea;
surely paul is'nt touting for trade ,only trying to safeguard the beach which up till now we have been privilaged to use.with luck ,or should i say vigilance on our part, it will stays that way.
lets keep focused on the potentail real problems and not invent some. if my dog were ill i would have no hesitation about sending it to you to be fixed as you are a known to me and so have increased credidiibilty in my eyes.
cant see a problem; but then i do need glasses to see my phone!

quote:

---

Originally posted by col123
Al if you need help with hosting costs etc give me a shout and i'll go blagging...or how about a donation fee from the massive??

---

just high lighting possible pit falls! and being naughty!! don't know how to do these smiley faces or i'd have put winks all over my last posts!! very calm about it all. think borth has the friendliest and SAFEST group of kiters i know. if i could i'd move there everyone makes me feel so at home and welcome. and yes it must be safeguarded but i just love playing devil's advocate!

Al i'm sure Col was not trying to compromise your situation or bias your opinions, which ever way, buy offering you support with finance or other things like your kites etc oooooooooooops you already have those.
have to watch what you say these days, holes appearing all over the place.
but seriously i think its a good idea that peeps who use this site as regularly as us lot to keep in touch etc could make a small annual donation, without being mentioned. hows about totting up your average yearly bill for offering the fon service and seeing if we can't take it from there to help out.

BEST be on our guard; Willfs in sheeps clothing!!

[Edited on 25/5/05 by mNeil]

Nice one!
yeah Al. sure we'd all be up for that. it's so handy for us all. especially with Al's meteorological forecasts for the weekends. Will there be any of that cattybatty wind this weekend?

Almost no chance at all of a 'cattybatty' wind this weekend (judging by the current charts), that doesn't mean there won't be any wind on the seafront though...Looking like Westerlies at the moment, but that could all change.




Al.

i retract my comments neil keeps ringing me up makeing me buy stuff, i was rich for two hours this morning but back in the land of skint

p.s. does any one want to buy a vw van..

[Edited on 25-5-2005 by col123]

[Edited on 25-5-2005 by col123]

Col
If you will be selling your little van, I would like to purchase your awning.

Im fully seeing Wills point with the land and water dispute, at the same time, I think all kiters need to stick together, because if they start banning one aspect, Im sure the others wont be far behind. Ive allready had e mail from buggyers, asking me to ban buggy jumpers from Certain beaches!! Its because of the different dangers in land kiting, that there are seperate land kiting areas in Aberdyfi now.

I have to agree with Shem. If Land based kitestuff is banned, it's unlikely that kitesurfing will be left to continue unhindered.

We should be embracing the other sports and using our experience to make them as safe as possible, not putting them out on a limb to get bad publicity for all.

We know they are vey different sports with different risks, but Joe public and council board member just see big dangerous kites.

Some way of making sure everyone has 3rd party insurance would show a little responsibilty on the riders behalf. Tough to enforce though?!?

One thing is for sure, the problem will only get worse as the sport grows in the next few years.

exactly, so why have a club to encourage growth???!!!
maybe it should discourage it!

i know, we should help new comers to learn safely using Shem and Paul and basic common sense.

a club will make us all feel like we belong together-like the surfers on Maui, so we'll pinch outsiders pumps so they can't ride!!!!

I'd be happy to help out with fon costs etc.... and it would be excellent when borth gets broadband to have an online wind reading, i'm sure lots of us would be willing to contribute to that. i've just set up an online weather station at our school, excellent though a little far from the coast!!

We have got Broadband now... my wireless connecting doesn't quite reach to the beach though!

It is still pretty expensive (c.£1000) to set up a decent weather station though.... Unless you know a better cheaper solution Tim?

Al.

Al, true the one at our school did cost nearly a grand, but that's an all singing all dancing affair. One that just does wind speed and direction, i'm sure would be a lot cheaper.
Leave it with me and I'll have a good look into it- when I return from next week's adventure of course!

Its hard not to encourage growth when shops such as Harrods and Argos all now sell kites, without a care of safety or experienced shop staff to advise on kite size. Whether we like it or not kiting is becoming main stream, and unless we regulate it, places are going to get bans.

The other alternative is to use quiet beaches away from public areas, not just beaches that are accesible by camper vans for people that are to lazy to make a 5 minuite walk accross some sand dunes.( Direct slag at the borth massive, HE-HE)!! Lets face it, theres miles and miles of unused beaches around Wales, that dont even have dog walkers on them, so why use beaches that other people use??????

I have to agree with Will, I wouldn´t really want to be part of a club with the land based crew. Some of them show no respect to kitesurfers, ie running over there lines , let alone any respect for the public! And a lot of the bans I here of are due to land boarders! Why can´t they just learn to swim and get on da water!
Later dudes

Some one in aberdyfi just got a weather station for about £150, Ill check which type and where, from them.

As far as a club goes, personally I see no need for one, If I need or want to tell people some thing, I can just get on here and have a rant, as far as beach safety, and signs, thats a case of getting in touch with the council and trying to sort it out. As Al said, people have tried the whole club thing all ready, and theyve never worked, ( West wales and dyfi kite sports for example, whos even heard of it)?

I know three people who have heard of it... Me, You and Craig!!!

As far as the weather stations go, you need a fairly decent one to be able to attach it to the computer a computer and upload the data to a server. As far as measurements go, it is also useful to have one that measures not just wind speed and direction, but also keeps track of average wind speed over a given time and maximum gust just so that you could get a better idea of what the win is doing... Any that record that also record barometric presure, rainfall, temperature etc etc... Last time I looked they were around £500 and then another £500 for the software to connect it all to a web-server. The prices may have dropped a bit since then I guess.

Al.

it might be in our favour to liase with peeps on buggys and landboards etc.remember black rock sands used to be oneof our favourit site; then the buggys got banned in season but they left the kitesurfers alone.result was the buggy peeps got annoyed that we were allowed on the beach so stuck thier oar in to complain and so they banned the lot!!
we dont want that to happen and not all buggy peeps disregard safety; myself and a few others started off learning our kiting skills in buggys.
talking to each other is better than taking sides and creating conflict which could end up in tears for us all!!

bo*^ocks to a club for now lets just keep borth and dovey quiet for now and just talk to new people who turn up, launch by the hut (borth side) and bollock any one who acts a prat close to shore or the public

Bang on Col, if you,ve got a problem with some one, tell them.

and i did this weekend some tw$t was flying with no leash and let his kite go in more than 30knt winds bar and lines went straight threw gruop of people. i advised that he stop he told me to f off if he would stop. he had driven 1.5 hours to get there and it wasn't his fault the leash was broken.... he reckoned a 3m foil wasn't dangerous any way!!!!! Got quite angry he got very threatening and they continued as they were.

So with tossers like that about who don't listen what are we supposed to do i can't get violent or cut his lines coz i'll just end up in court so if they don't bloody listen what next.

(i may have left my mark on his Storm kite though!!!)

or was that my highly trained dog!

not that interested in a club for kiters. as i said a while ago. people who kite onthe beach are a guilty as people who surf in the swimming area or bike on footpaths. they see mto have no idea most people come down to the beach to relax and unwind. to allow kids to play with no traffic or bikes.

all i can say at the mo is i hope the wind is at least 20 knots allsummer to keep them offthe beach and me on the water.

failing that, forget the weather staition. lets all chip in to buy a tractor and a plough. problem solved.

well said will, also wittnessed idiots on sat, question is if you are a beginner how do you get to know about the locals, local rules or this site, i've never seen those guys before.
reckon we should of cut their LINES

no respect DUDES.

Wow! That got you all going!!

Some good comments in there. The land versus water kite debate will go on for a while, however "It's all kites" and there's no getting away from it.

The main benefit of a club is to show "Due Dilgence" to the authorites so that when one of those "idiots" lets their bar fly through a group of inocent by standers, we can demonstrate that it was a one off and that we as a group are doing what we can to try to prevent it in the first place. Idiots will always be there, club or no club. No club just shows that we don't try to prevent them harming us or the public.

Is there any middle ground? Can we fund signs informally? Can we write a code of conduct informally? Can we enforce insurance??

Just thoughts!!

PS - definately not touting for business - haven't done any teaching or even kited in Wales for months. All the demand is on the South Coast!! I'm starting to miss you all... or am I?

Sorry you had a bad telling off experience Will. If any one could be bothered you could call the police. They can be done under "section 54, ( I think its 54), of the anti social behaviour act. It works in a way that if your causing a nuisance in any way and any where, you can get done for it. Its used a lot on beaches as a way of controlling jet skis at the moment. which is why a lot of harbour officials are now allowed to hand out tickets as well as the police!! Basically if you get 2-3 warnings for any thing, ( bad kiting, speeding in a car, dropping rubbish in the street, etc), you can get taken to court, you could even have your car, jet ski, what ever implement you where using confiscated permenantly!! The whole system is linked nation wide, so theres no way of getting away with it either. If you cant get the police take the persons number plate and discription and report it.

Scary stuff from Big brother, ey!!

OOOh. Better behave myself in future. Thanks for the heads up Shem!!